Wednesday, November 12, 2008

Nordstrom Bank May Not Give You Full Access To Your Available Credit For Up To 21 Days After A Payment Is Credited To Your Account


As you may recall, on Friday I reported that Nordstrom Bank would be raising rates on all of its credit- and store-card offerings (link here). On Monday I received my official notification in the mail. In addition to the rate changes that I laid out, though, there are also some new terms that have been added to my card agreement, one of which should be of particular interest to cardholders. Beginning January 1, 2009, payments to your Nordstrom account could possibly be held for up to 21 days after a payment is credited to your account. Previously, Nordstrom said that it could hold payments for up to five days.

(Note: After I originally published this story, I was able to talk with someone about this disclosure. I'm told that the disclosure was necessary, though it will not apply to most of Nordstrom's customers. Here's why: Nordstrom plans to impose this 21-day hold on customers who have bounced checks, done ACH payments that didn't clear, or who have had a history of being late on their account. By and large, those are the only people who are impacted by this 21-day hold. That said, the disclosure was sent to all 2 million Nordstrom customers. Because the disclosure has now been made, Nordstrom could theoretically impose this hold on all of its customers -- though that's obviously unlikely.)

In essence, what Nordstrom is saying is that if you make a payment of $5,000, and your limit is $10,000, you may only have access to $5,000 of your limit -- even if the payment has been credited to your account and the payment has cleared your bank. "After a payment is credited to my Nordstrom Visa Signature, Nordstrom Platinum and Classic Visa, or Nordstrom retail account, it may take up to 21 days before my total available credit is restored in an amount equivalent to the payment amount," according to the new Nordstrom agreement. As an example, Nordstrom says that even "if I pay my balance in full, it may take up to 21 days after my payment is made before that payment is considered in determining the amount I can borrow on my account." Nordstrom does say "may," though. In law, "may" is a lot more flexible than "shall," which means "must." Still, I'm surprised by the amount of days that Nordstrom could take to release the available credit. Just goes to show how conservative Nordstrom is.

Imagine someone who uses a good chunk of their available credit each month. Beginning in January, this same customer may not have access to the full limit for up to three weeks. I wonder what prompted this change. (See my disclosure above. Customers who have had trouble with their accounts forced Nordstrom to revise the terms of its card agreement.) But Nordstrom can't possibly argue that it takes 21 days for funds to clear. Indeed, this is the longest hold period I've seen.

Most of my card companies credit my account -- and make my credit available -- within a day or two of the payment being processed. (Having talked with someone at Nordstrom, I can see why the disclosure was added to the card agreement. I am no longer miffed; the length of the hold period is still interesting, though.)

We'll see if Nordstrom is the only bank that moves the hold period to 21 days. A reader tells me that his Chase agreement (which may not be the most up-to-date agreement) has a 15-day provision; and Juniper has a 7-day provision (my Juniper agreement says the same thing). Discover, meanwhile, has a 15-day provision, I am told. There are no such disclosures for Bank of America, American Express, or Citibank.

There were other changes in the agreement as well, but they're nothing to write about. Mostly changes to late payment charges and minimum monthly payments.

Related Articles:

  • Sign Of The Times: Nordstrom Bank To Lift Interest Rates On Its Credit and Store Cards


  • 48 comments:

    Bob Wang said...

    Bummer!

    CreditMattersBlog.com said...

    No kidding, BW. Times, they are a changin'.

    LBCS said...

    CM, Do you think Nordstroms is getting ready to divest the bank operations?

    CreditMattersBlog.com said...

    Not according to my source, LBCS. But these kinds of moves are interesting to say the least.

    CreditMattersBlog.com said...

    Seriously, doesn't this have a subprime feel to it??

    CreditMattersBlog.com said...

    By the way, even though I have been told that Nordstrom has no intention to leave the card business, these kinds of moves make it so that I would not be surprised if it did exit the business.

    Anonymous said...

    Hmm, I'm sensing they may not be on top of your list for much longer. Nordstrom is looking less attractive. I had Nordstrom and State Farm on my list for next year when the rest of my inquiries fall off. Looking more and more like this may not be there by next year for me. Time will tell. Pssst, maybe its time to get that Discover card. You know you want it!!

    Nikky

    TheVibeRAIDER said...

    Don't you just hate it to be punished with the rest of them?

    It must feel like grade school all over again.

    Steve_ said...

    Merrick bank did this to me when the Hooters MC used to my only decent card ($2K CL) and I'd PIF each month. I could fax them a print out of my online statement and they'd release the hold.

    Sean said...

    I've never heard of such a thing. Definitely sounds like a sub-prime tactic if there ever was one. In such case, I think the proper response of a Nordie's customer would be to demand a double of one's credit limit since Nordstrom is effectively halving your limit for each billing cycle.

    Maybe this is Nordstrom's way of cutting limits (similar to Amex & Chase's recent cuts) without the public uproar? Most people never read their agreements until something doesn't go their way, then find out that they have no recourse and get upset.

    Given the two methods, I'll gladly take the way Amex has handled the less-favourable market -- transparent and clear. Also doesn't hurt that Amex raised my CL by nearly 3x during this time.

    Steve_ said...
    Merrick bank did this to me when the Hooters MC used to my only decent card ($2K CL) and I'd PIF each month. I could fax them a print out of my online statement and they'd release the hold


    I'm confused...shouldn't they already have that information and know that you've paid your bill?!? Scary business practices if they can't keep their accounting system working properly.

    Far Left Texas said...

    On one hand, by using the word "may" [hold payments 21 days] Nordstom gives themselves the ability to discriminate. Maybe Mr. 777 FICO will have his payment credited same day, and Mr. 601 will have his payment held for three weeks.

    I just can't see Nordstrom ticking off a high dollar PIF customer by doing this.

    dd50 said...

    I don't have that card as I am still trying to get some decent cards and looks like there won't be any.

    I remember when banks use to do that if you deposited a check it could take three weeks to clear. Yeah, right.

    Looks to me like since people can use credit and PIF so they don't accrue interest, looks like they want to get in the same game.

    CreditMattersBlog.com said...

    FLT, the language is definitely "may." Nice wiggle language. But just the fact that they would have this disclosure is disheartening.

    It also means that I won't be able to predict when Nordstrom may actually implement that disclosure. What if I am one of the lucky ones. Let's say that my account is credited the day of the payment -- and all of my limit is available to me.

    But what happens if four months down the road, Nordstrom decides that it's exercising its right to hold the limit for up to 21 days?

    That's unsettling.

    CreditMattersBlog.com said...

    Anon, this is definitely not good news. And Nordstrom is probably still at the top of my list -- but barely. Its APR is not my lowest APR any longer. That 21-day language is lame. We'll see what they hatch next month.

    Let's just say that I have Nordstrom on Credit Watch for a possible downgrade. Haha.

    CreditMattersBlog.com said...

    Merrick is obviously subprime if they're doing stuff like that, Steve. Juniper has been known to hold payments for some customers, too. And Juniper can be very subprime. I've had no issues with Juniper, but I've seen enough stories to realize that not everyone gets the same treatment.

    CreditMattersBlog.com said...

    Sean, I haven't seen anything like this before, either. Not sure what to make of it. I don't have a reference point for this, so I am uncertain as to what it means.

    But this much I do know: it's not a move that is consumer friendly. That much we should all know.

    CreditMattersBlog.com said...

    Virgil, do you have a Nordstrom card?

    The Lion said...

    That certainly has a subprime feel to it, CM. I wonder what their justification would be. It doesn't take three weeks to clear funds. Heck these days it barely takes three days to clear funds! They are just being stingy.

    CreditMattersBlog.com said...

    Yeah. Something smells. I've never seen another disclosure like this before. Will be interesting to see if they are the only bank that does it.

    I may lob a call into my person and see what's going on with this disclosure.

    The Lion said...

    You should! Post a transcript!

    CreditMattersBlog.com said...

    Haha. Don't think so, sweetie.

    CreditMattersBlog.com said...

    Lion, the story has now been updated. I was able to get some color on the new 21-day hold disclosure.

    The Lion said...

    Well...ok I guess that is better. Still not great since they can still impose it on anyone they choose.

    CreditMattersBlog.com said...

    Right. It's better though. Likely won't impact good payers, though. Still, the disclosure is there.

    TheVibeRAIDER said...

    "Virgil, do you have a Nordstrom card?"

    No I don't. I just my regular Visa. Nordstrom happens to be a little far away from my home.

    But was I correct that "the best" Nordstrom cardholders were being lumped with "the-not-so-best" cardholders?

    CreditMattersBlog.com said...

    The best cardholders are seeing their interest rates rise to 7.9%, Virgil. Nothing major. And I have updated this story to reflect the incremental information that I have received today. Turns out that Nordstrom is specifically targeting customers with that 21-day hold language. Still, the disclosure had to go out to all 2 million customers.

    By the way, V, because there is a Nordstrom Visa card, you don't have to have a Nordstrom store around you to use the card.

    Anonymous said...

    CM:''Still, I'm surprised by the amount of days that Nordstrom could take to release the available credit. Just goes to show how conservative Nordstrom is.''**********************************Conservative???...are you joking?...They are greedy to the fullest!

    CreditMattersBlog.com said...

    Anon, it shows how conservative the bank is as well. You don't hold payments for 21 days. Chase can hold them for 15. Juniper is 7 days. But 21?

    Also, this disclosure is geared toward those who have had issues with their payments (insufficient funds, etc.). I can certainly see where you are coming from with the greedy comment. But it doesn't appear that this hold policy will be widely used. It will be targeted toward those who have had problems with their account.

    But, yeah, 21 days could absolutely indicate some greed there. I think most people could live with 7 days. Hell, now that I think about it, Chase is looking pretty greedy there at 15 days.

    Cosmo's human said...

    I don't have a Nordy's card, hell I can't afford to shop at Beachwood Place where they are located. But I have 2 Juni's and a Hooters, and it sounds like Nordy's is acting out in sub prime ways. I guess I'm not that special, but if my payments were being held 3 weeks, even one week I'd raise a huge stink with complaints to the the Comptroller of the Currency, FTC, BBB, AG and whoever else I can bother. Nobody messes around with HM and gets away with it!

    CreditMattersBlog.com said...

    Haha. Well, just to be clear Nordstrom doesn't intend to apply this rule to everyone. Instead, it will be directed at those who have been abusing the system. Insufficient funds, bounced checks, whatever. Used to be that Nordstrom could hold payments for five days (which is reasonable). But this move to 21 days is extreme in my opinion.

    CreditMattersBlog.com said...

    By the way, Anon, you've convinced me. Nordstrom is pretty damn greedy for using 21 days. Hard to argue otherwise.

    See? I'm flexible!

    Anonymous said...

    I see:)

    CreditMattersBlog.com said...

    I've never been rigid, Anon. I gave it some thought and I think you have a point.

    TheVibeRAIDER said...

    Credit Matters:

    To tell you the truth, I did not know anything about Nordstrom's Visa until I read your card profile. How long have they issued it? Isn't there a store card as well? I've had store cards from Macy's and Emporium-Capwell.

    Shows you the extent of my sophistication. :-p

    CreditMattersBlog.com said...

    Nordstrom rolled out its first VISA card in 1993.

    The store card has been around a lot longer.

    Green said...

    ACHs can be reversed so its understandable that banks would potentially impose up to a 5-10 business day hold. This happened with a bank mentioned here, the reason they gave us was that people are increasingly with ACH's, running up huge balances and then payments come back as returned leaving the bank holding up to 2x the debt they'd originally intended to extended. It's another sign of the economy I'm afraid.

    Sean said...

    If Norstrom is THAT itchy about a particular customer's payment not going through....what the heck are they doing keeping that customer around?

    CreditMattersBlog.com said...

    Good point, Sean. Why not just can these customers?

    Excellent point.

    spiritcraft said...

    Interesting thread... I guess we will see how this whole mess shakes out. Bottom line, financial institutions need income and those lucky enough to maintain and recover will not have such a difficult time in the long run.

    There must be some trouble in the Nordstrom portfolio and they should be careful to not drive loyal customers away. Nice to see you adapting and being flexible CM!!

    Thank you for this site by the way.

    CreditMattersBlog.com said...

    No idea. You'd like to think that there is a story behind the story, eh? Maybe it's nothing. Maybe it's something. Who knows.

    Spirit, thanks for the post. And thanks for visiting, pal.

    Anonymous said...

    OH NO i sure hope Nordstrom doesn't give the axe on their bank operation. i do enjoy the visa card.

    Charles Clarke said...

    It also would allow them to hold the funds if they see your credit report worsen.

    CreditMattersBlog.com said...

    Anon, don't think that's going to happen. According to people I have spoken with, there is little to no chance of that happening. Nordstrom is quite happy to be in the credit card business. It has two million customers. And it seems to be doing just fine.

    That said, the bank must be flexible. That's why it decided to raise rates. It's not immune to what's happening out there.

    Although I don't like to see my rate go from 4% to 7.9%, I think the move is a good one on Nordstrom's part. It has been leaving a lot of money on the table for a long time.

    It will now be more competitive. I don't begrudge the move.

    CreditMattersBlog.com said...

    Charles, yes. That's another thing that this move would provide for.

    But I'm told that the move is really aimed at people who have had trouble with their Nordstrom accounts -- whether it be a late payment, or bounced checks, or what have you.

    Travis Reeder said...

    Lame! I was just about to sign up for a card, just heard about how great this card was with the low interest and being a Nordstrom fan, it made sense. But now I guess I'll just stick with my Bank of America Visa Signature that I've had for years at 7.9%.

    CreditMattersBlog.com said...

    Travis, yep. Sucks about the rate jump at Nordstrom. Customer service is still top notch, though. Will always have to give them that. But the rate is now in line with competitors.

    Anonymous said...

    Hi Travis,
    I just wanted to let you know if you are looking for another credit card. I highly recommend the nordstrom bank credit cards. i have had mine for six years now. i got approved for the platinum visa at the age of 19 and now i have their visa signature card. Yeah i have always enjoyed the very low aprs but still 7.9% is still pretty good. actually anthing under 10% is decent. i know so many people who have apr's of 15-20% with other banks. Just to let you know anytime i called nordstrom bank customer service was top notch. it reminds me of amex service. i swear by it the service is better with nordstrom bank than the norstrom store. imagine that! i used to be with bank of america and in the end they were quite disappointing but to each their own.

    CreditMattersBlog.com said...

    I can absolutely attest to the excellent customer service at Nordstrom Bank. These CSRs are nice and they know the product well.

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