WaMu credit-card customers will soon receive a letter in the mail notifying them that their WaMu Platinum credit cards have been converted into JPMorgan Chase cards. Some Providian cardholders, meanwhile, may not make the transition. According to someone I spoke with at Washington Mutual, Providian account reviews are still pending.
A WaMu Platinum customer relayed some of the changes that were outlined in his letter. First, the WaMu card is now officially a JPMorgan Chase card. His annual percentage rate is moving higher -- though not drastically (from roughly 9% currently to 10.24%). If your APR is being changed, you'll receive the disclosure in the letter. The minimum payment will change as well. Update: as of March 9, 2009, you can now combine and convert your old WaMu cards. See the story here (link).
After March 6, 2009, customers will begin receiving Chase billing statements. Until then, you'll continue to receive WaMu statements. In some cases, meanwhile, the payment due dates on the account will change slightly. If that's a problem, Chase writes, customers should call Chase so that it can readjust the due date.
The only notable disclosure is this one: "If you are enrolled in automatic payments to your credit card with a fixed payment amount (e.g. $300 monthly), effective March 6, 2009, your automatic payment will be changed to your monthly minimum payment due." That's important. Make sure that you call Chase and get that rectified. Recurring bills will continue to be honored, Chase says.
What's not in the letter is this: account numbers will not change. And, until your account expires, you will continue to use WaMu-branded plastic. Once the card does expire, you'll receive Chase-branded plastic. At this point, it's not known what Chase card WaMu cardmembers will ultimately receive once their WaMu cards expire. Also, there is still no word on whether customers will continue to receive free FICO scores as part of their account benefits. UPDATE: It's official. Free FICO score is dead (see story here).
As for the Providian cardmembers, who were brought into the WaMu fold when WaMu acquired Providian in 2005, some of them will simply be allowed to "run off," meaning that their cards will not be renewed and they will not be retained by JPMorgan Chase. Chase is currently reviewing accounts, so a final decision as to who has -- and has not -- made the cut hasn't been finalized.
While nothing is in stone (and things are always subject to change), Chase currently plans to board all WaMu Platinum cardholders. In other words, if you are a WaMu Platinum cardmember you should expect to receive a letter outlining your conversion to Chase.
That's it for now. If I learn more, I will be sure to notify my readers.
UPDATE: I was able to call WaMu (after I published this story) and confirm that my WaMu account is being converted into a Chase account. I was able to do this even though I have not yet received a letter in the mail. Use the toll-free number on the back of your WaMu card to see if you're being converted. I called 866-892-9268.
UPDATE 2: Those who opt out will not be required to pay the balance in full. Customers will be able to pay the balance over time -- even after the account is closed.
Related Articles:
Saturday, January 10, 2009
WaMu Card Customers: Conversion To Chase Credit Card Coming Soon
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«Oldest ‹Older 1 – 200 of 250 Newer› Newest»I'm praying this bodes well that most of us WAMU cardholders will be kept on unless we actually do something to draw Chase's ire.
wow thanks marcus for this post i was just about to ask about this very question.
I think it's good news that it "appears" that WaMu cardmembers (platinum) will be retained.
Not such good news for the Providian cardmembers, though. In my discussion, the word "subprime" came up more than once in regard to the Providian customers.
Anon, you are welcome. Glad I could be of service. Always trying to break news around here whenever possible.
As for reallocating credit limits and making changes with your new Chase cards, I don't have that information. Because this is still so new, I imagine that no allocations will be allowed for now. I'm thinking some time after March 31.
Did you by any chance get any scoop on business cards?
No word on WaMu biz cards. I bet -- bet -- those cards are being scrutinized by Chase. This is a heck of a biz environment. But I am guessing. I don't know anything about the biz cards.
One of the features of the WAMU Biz cards is a free EXP Biz report (I guess it is their equivalent of offering the PFICO on personal cards). If I had to guess folks with actual businesses, including an actual established EXP Business file, will have a decent chance of staying on. Sole Proprietors with no other way of verifying a valid business will probably be pretty well scrutinized.
HelCat, that would make sense. Plus, Chase is having its own issues with business cards. You know that Chase no longer offers biz cards on its own Web site any longer. By invite only.
I'm real curious to see how this shakes out.
If you have a WaMu biz card, be sure to keep me updated on your progress.
Knowledge is power. Great article!
Hanadarko, much appreciated. And thanks for sharing the letter with me.
I have two Providian cards that I got after the 2005 WaMu acquisition. WaMu continued to issue affinity cards under the Providian name (I got one in Nov. 2007)... they're NOT subprime. Mine are $20k combined, both under 10%.
I'm surprised that anyone involved in this situation is so uninformed as to not know the difference between pre-WaMu Providian and post-WaMu Providian. If you wanted a card to benefit a particular organization, you had no choice but to get a Providian card from WaMu... well after the acquisition. Even with PFICO over 800, like mine. I'd hardly call that subprime.
They really need to take that into consideration. We didn't choose to keep the Providian name after the acquisition, they did. So we shouldn't all be tarred with the subprime brush.
Anon, I referenced the Providian customers who were brought into the fold when the acquisition took place. Those are the customers who were referred to as subprime.
I would imagine that the Providian customers brought on AFTER the acquisition will be duly noted too.
CM, I just got a WAMU biz card recently in hopes of sneaking in before underwriting changed over to Chase completely. I have an older BK that would never slip under the radar with Chase otherwise. Thanks to you and Hanadarko I'm feeling pretty good about my older WAMU Platinum. I'll definitely keep you posted on any development with the Biz cards.
HelCat, great. I'll often get tipped off by readers to changes. Then I can contact sources to confirm/deny rumors, information.
Much appreciated.
I have yet to receive the letter, but tentatively, I see it as good news.
Here's another non-important/petty detail to consider:
Washington Mutual has been issuing its Platinum card in both Visa and Mastercard versions.
To the best of my knowledge, the Visa version were offered exclusively under invitation and the Mastercard version was offered both through invitation and if you applied cold.
Traditionally, Chase offered both Visa and Mastercard, but had a markedly Visa skew.
Traditionally, Washington Mutual offered both Visa and Mastercard, but has been shifting to a Mastercard skew lately.
I wonder how Chase is going to handle this detail. I can see Mastercard sweating bullets now (with the prospects of losing a sizeable chunk of their customer base, unless Chase surprises us all.)
---
Marcus, add this to the reasons why your blog is successful: "I can get accurate, important information AND details FIRST on Credit Matters Blog."
First, the Merrill+ Visa Signature conversion. Definitely confirmed by the community, now the details are pending.
Now, the WaMu to Chase card conversion. Confirmation in progress, details pending.
Azntg, good points on the MasterCard and VISA distinction.
FYI, I just called and confirmed that I am being converted to the Chase card. I have a Platinum MasterCard. So, good news. Not so good to MasterCard if Chase moves all of us to VISA cards.
My suggestion? Call WaMu and see if they can give you details about your account. I have NOT received a letter yet -- but WaMu was able to confirm that I will be converted.
Finally, Azn, thanks for reading the blog. Because I am early on this story, I always worry about the details changing.
Understood, CM. That wasn't clear in the original version of this post (the subprime reference seems to be gone, unless I'm blind). What I got from it was that all Providian cards are seen as subprime.
I should hope that post-WaMu cards--both affinity cards and regular cards--issued under the Providian name after the acquisition will be seen as just as legit as any other WaMu cards. To the best of my memory, for quite a while after the acquisition, WaMu-branded cards were only available by invitation or to WaMu banking customers. I think Associates National Bank actually issued the vanilla WaMu cards prior to the Providian deal, not WaMu itself. Most of WaMu's cards since 2005 have been issued by the Providian arm, which was acquired to be their credit-card division, because they didn't have one.
I lost my late-2005, post-WaMu Providian card in early 2007. The replacement was another Providian-branded card. That was finally replaced by a WaMu-branded card... AFTER the Chase acquisition.
What a mess.
Anon, no worries. In the original story, I referred to the Providian customers who were brought on as part of the acquisition in 2005. Those were the customers that were referred to as subprime. I mentioned subprime in the comments section -- but didn't spell out the distinction.
You made a good point. There are many customers who got Providian cards AFTER the 2005 acquisition. Look at your scores. Superprime.
The information I have is that all Providian accounts are being reviewed. Not all of them will survive. I would suspect that the Providian cards brought on as part of the acquisition will get a closer look.
Both of my WaMu cards started out as Providians.
One has already been cancelled due to inactivity.
Called the number on the back of my extant card, CSR tells me I'll be receiving a letter, but she can't give me any information over the phone.
Guess I'm sub-prime :-(
By the way, I just added a KEY word to my story. SOME Providian customers won't make the cut. My story should have said that in the lede.
Bob, doesn't sound good. Interesting that they told you about the letter -- but would not tell you whether you're being retained.
Easy come, easy go :-)
BW, I don't think you're too worried. But my other readers will likely be interested in your comment nonetheless. I am hoping that my readers continue to supplement my blog with incremental information (like yours).
What, Me Worry? ;-)
Bob, be sure to let me know when you get the letter. My readers will be curious.
And you never worry.
I'll be sure to let you know, CM.
Thanks, BW. I'd like to stay ahead of this story.
Just called Washington Mutual Card Services. They have absolutely no information for me.
Guess I'll have to wait for the mail.
Azntg, funny how your CSR was clueless. But Bob and I were able to get something from ours. Mine told me that I am being converted. Bob's CSR said he's receiving a letter -- but wouldn't tell him if he's being retained.
I would call back if you care enough. I would imagine we're gonna have to play the dial-a-CSR-who-has-information game.
I called customer service too, and was flabbergasted at the lack of knowledge. First I explained the entire situation, then asked if it was possible to find out the status of my account(s). "The status of your account? You have a zero balance." SIGH. So I explained again, and was told that all accounts will be converted to Chase. Then I had to explain the distinctions between WaMu and Providian cards, both post- and pre-acquisition. Deaf ears as expected. Then I was told I would be receiving a letter. And that I should call this number for more information about my account.
The number was Chase's opt-out number.
Anon, what a nightmare of a phone call. I guess that's why people come to my blog for information. Apparently I have much better information than the CSRs. At least I have some details -- though maybe not every detail.
So, now we have four phone calls. I successfully figured out the disposition of my card. Bob gets a letter -- but no word on his status. Azntg got a CSR who didn't know anything. And now you've reached a CSR who doesn't seem to know anything -- other than the Chase opt out phone number.
Lovely.
I mistakenly said my second Providian card was issued in 11/07... it was actually 11/06 (still well post-WaMu). It has never been replaced, and still has all Providian fine print on the card, and also a Providian CSR number. So I called it.
Here's what THIS one said:
Only secured cards are being closed. All of them. On Monday.
I was apparently sent a letter on 12/12 saying my second Providian (the affinity card from 11/06, expires 11/09) will be reissued soon--first as a WaMu-branded card and THEN a Chase card afterwards, if you can believe it--and is being converted to Chase.
The 11/05 Providian vanilla account (which was replaced by a WaMu vanilla card in 11/08, post-Chase) is also being converted, but will not be reissued as Chase plastic until it expires in 11/11. Letter supposedly sent for this one too.
Hope this makes sense and is of some help. :-)
Regarding the secured-card situation, I have covered that here at my blog:
WaMu Secured Card First Casualty In JPMorgan Chase Acquisition
http://www.creditmattersblog.com/2009/01/wamu-secured-card-first-casualty-in.html
Anon, lots of moving parts by the sound of the CSR. I can only imagine how that conversation sounded. :)
To all of my readers, chime in as you receive your letters. I want to get a handle on how everything is being handled.
This CSR was totally on the ball. The conversation was fairly painless because she actually was familiar with everything I asked about. What a concept!!
I just wonder why I've never received these letters.
Still no dice. One representative did mention that if there are "any changes," I'll receive a notice in the mail soon.
Oh, and yes... confirmed that accounts converted to Chase WILL keep the same account number.
Anon, no kidding. If they've been sending these letters, where are they??
Azntg, I am sure you'll be receiving a letter soon.
Anon, good. So that's one thing nailed down. I got that "same account number" information away from the letter. The letter doesn't address that.
I knew I had it nailed down, but glad that you were able to independently confirm it.
Why bother keeping Providian and their subprime customer crew. They just tarnish the good Chase name. Most Providian cardholders have poor FICO scores or are people with blemishes and bankruptcies on their credit reports. Deadbeats do not deserve credit cards, especially in this climate.
OK, no more Anon. :-)
You also nailed down that there will no Chase plastic for converted accounts until WaMu cards expire.
One thing I still don't get is why my converted DNC card--which expires in 11/09--will be reissued as a WaMu card first.
Ulysses, no idea why you are being put through a two-step process. I have given up trying to understand WaMu. I chalk your situation up as quirky.
Um, that last Anon--who clearly can't read--was NOT me.
Providian customers of the last three years are not subprime. You are really behind the times. I have two Providian cards. And I have FICOs in the 800s.
Anon@5:14pm, not all Providian customers are created equally. That's why Chase is reviewing all Providian accounts.
I believe that Chase is most concerned with the Providian accounts that were brought on as part of WaMu's acquisition of Providian in 2005.
As Ulysses pointed out, some Providian customers -- most notably the ones boarded after the merger -- cannot be thrown into the mix with those pre-merger Providian customers.
I am sure that Chase is cherry picking from the portfolio.
I have a confession to make...
I'm not really subprime ;-)
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t131/BobWangPhotos/WaMu30k.jpg
Bob, what does your FICO score look like, though? Are you over 800 -- like Ulysses?
Just for the record, I know that answer. Bob is over 800.
Will be interesting to see how this merger shakes out.
Well, I'm only 788 on TransUnion :-(
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t131/BobWangPhotos/BobsFICOScores2006-2009.jpg
Bob, you're a scrub! Get that TU score up!
DW has a 20K+ credit limit, 810 average credit score, this is an old Providian account.
She is far from a deadbeat!
Subprime deadbeat. heh
New card...Higher FICO...new card...Higher...
Decisions, decisions ;-)
NYR, the phone number I used is in my story. Have her call that. Or have her call the number on the back of her card. As you can see from the comments in this thread, people have had mixed results getting information from CSRs.
Bob, you are the epitome of my story on high FICO, apply, high FICO, apply.
http://www.creditmattersblog.com/2008/08/high-fico-score-sitting-in-garage-or-on.html
Guys, keep it clean here. Don't attack each other. Attack issues -- not readers. Keep it constructive.
Thanks.
CreditMattersBlog - You are correct. I should have written "Chase should shut down all Providian accounts opened before 2005".
Re: the letters being sent out. One thing I wish they would do is make snail-mail letters available when you log into your account. Obviously there's a database of them, so I don't see why it can't be linked with the secure private messaging system associated with your account, so the letter is also delivered FYI electronically to your inbox.
Ulysses, that would make too much sense. Notifying readers via their online messaging would be smart. You know they can do it, too. It would be easy.
Death Match!
Just got off the phone with WaMu, the CSR seemed on top of my question. He said both my older Providian that became a WaMu VISA Plat in '05 and my very recent all-WaMu MC Plat will convert. He kept saying they were "in good standing and will become Chase." No mention of the letters. He also said that all WaMu cards "in good standing" will convert, emphasizing WAMU and Good Standing.
I mentioned to him I was planning a long trip and wondered if I should take my cards with me. He assured me that I should...
Anon@5:40pm, even that wouldn't be fair. People like Bob Wang, who typically has scores that are above 800 -- and who has never had a late payment in his life -- would be killed under your scenario.
Here's what I would say instead: There are some suspect accounts in that pre-merger Providian portfolio. Chase should go through it and weed out the bad risks. Customers who can't make the Chase grade should be jettisoned.
Clutch, your information comports with my information. The WaMu cards look as though they are making the move without a problem. It's the Providian-branded cards -- the ones that still say Providian on them -- that are being scrutinized.
Clutch, did your CSR go into both of your accounts and read specific notes in your files? Mine did.
Edit: $20,501.00 from $20,001.00
CreditMattersBlog - I was under the assumption that BobWang never had Providian, JUST wamu.
I was just suggesting an easy way out - Providian was a subprime lender and most people who applied for it had bad credit histories and had few choices. A few people with good credit inadvertently applied, but most quickly canceled. That is why just shutting down pre 2005 Providian accounts will be the easiest way to rid themselves of all the deadbeats.
There was the tit for tat. No more beyond that last comment, NY.
Much appreciated -- all of you.
NYRF, $20,001.00?
There MUST be a story behind that :-)
Sorry, did not see your comment before I wrote my message.
Anon@5:50pm, I think that's right. Some people didn't realize that Providian was subprime when they applied. I think we can lump Bob in with that. Bob does have a Providian card, though.
And I am not disagreeing with you on the ease of getting rid of the vast majority of the customers -- assuming they don't fit in with Chase's portfolio. I know that Chase is just running the numbers and seeing who fits and who doesn't. Seems smart.
Some of those older Providian customers -- who might have been subprime back in the day -- have reformed. They would no longer be considered subprime. I think that's what Chase is figuring out.
Hi Bob, not sure the reason for the $1.
Oh, dang!
I was hoping for something juicy and scandalous ;-)
If you guys would like to take it elsewhere, that would be great. If you want to discuss the WaMu situation here -- without going after each other -- I would enjoy having you guys here.
Remember, someone carries ;-)
Back to to the topic on hand.
I'm more optimistic after reading some of the comments.
I SHOULD be a vlued customer.
After all, I have spent $84 on my Providian/WaMu over the years ;-)
Ulysses, I'm not sure about notes. He pulled them up individually and seemed to be reading through something and seemed happy with what he read. He ended both pauses with "this one is in good standing and will become a Chase"
Good Standing seems to be a code word or something, and not just in the normal way.
What did your CSR say about your notes?
Oops, make that "at" and "valued"
Can't type fast without making mistakes.
Just FYI I have deleted comments that had nothing to do with this story. I think all will agree that the comments are better off being deleted.
My blog, with thousands and thousands of posts, has always avoided having threads devolve into a pissing match.
The deleted comments represent my attempt to keep it that way.
Carry on.
Thanks, CreditMattersBlog.
I sincerely feel that there are some organizations are sleazy right to their core. Providian, Cross Country Bank and Ameriquest are some examples. These banks exploit people with sketchy histories and ought to be regulated closely right from their inception. Providian was especially galling in their disregard for basic customer rights.
Something that will survive.
From NYRFann:
Anyway DW called, she was told her account is being converted to Chase and they gave her a $500 CLI to $20, 501.00 from $20,501.00
Clutch, sounds about right. She told me she was reading notes, though. I was just wondering if you were given account-specific info, or just a boilerplate answer. I was especially interested to hear that your pre-WaMu Providian IS being converted to Chase. CM, did you catch that distinction in Clutch's post?
Anon, Providian was amazingly sleazy. Think 1997-1999. I remember some of the stuff they were doing back then. Unreal stuff.
Ulysses, trying to recall my conversation with the CSR when I called. Not sure if I remember the "good standing" comment.
Just to correct the repost by CM (My typo):
$20,501.00 from $20,001.00
CreditMattersBlog - And they hired the best lawyers to fight every attempt to bring them to heel. It was frustrating to see them consistently exploit customers at every opportunity. I remember reading some documentation about them and remember reading they especially preferred people with bad credit (think median TU score of 679, an absurdly low number).
That is why I was absolutely sure that either NYRFann or his wife had sketchy histories and had defaulted on their bills in the past - there would no reason to have a Providian card otherwise. Bob, of course is an exception as he defies all attempts at segmentation :-)
Ulysses, my guy refered to my limits and age, so it didn't seem boilerplate. He also seemed to understand my consern and verified each one with a: "Ummmmm.... yes, this one is in good standing and will become chase". After my mention of the trip, he said I would have nothing to worry about and to enjoy it.
CM, I meant that Clutch's PRE-WaMu Providian (he described it as an "older Providian that became a WaMu VISA Plat in '05"--hope I understood correctly) was being converted to Chase. Your reply to him after his CSR call sounded as if you thought both of his cards were regular WaMu or post-acquisition Providian.
Anon@6:14pm, I lived in San Francisco when Providian was really getting down and dirty. I knew a reporter at American Banker who was all over that story. He NEVER had a nice thing to say about Providian.
I remember how surprised I was when WaMu decided to buy Providian. They should have started from scratch instead of inheriting that Providian baggage.
Anonymous, WTF is your problem? Yes I BK'd Providian, DW never did!
She has had them for years and is one if her 1st TL's.
For the record after I BK'd them they refused to give me a card.
As for the rest, I'll mind my manners!
Yes, Killinger destroyed the company with his poor decisions.
Ulysses, I think those Pre-WaMu Providian cards that got converted to WaMu might just slip through without a problem. Seems that the cards that are still branded as Providian are the ones that are being scrutinized.
Thanks for the added information. So, like Bob, your wife had a Providian card without perhaps even realizing its subprime pedigree.
For the record, I got my pre-WaMu Providian back in '04. At the time I had no idea about sub-prime cards. I had a BoA and a Citi card. The offer looked good (APR and BT terms). I applied and got an OK limit. I just used it and PIF'd it like normal, never knowing I had a stinker in my wallet.
I just look at it as a stroke of good luck. I accidentally got an emabrassing card and it has just gradually fallen into the hands of better banks.
Clutch, I am on the record as saying that I have been disappointed with my WaMu relationship. Were it not for PFICO, I would have killed this card a long time ago.
I never liked the subprime feel on parts of the card. Couldn't request a credit-limit increase. Couldn't ask for an APR adjustment.
Also, limits tend to be on the low side with this card -- though there are those who defy my general statement.
But most pre-WaMu Providian cards are from the subprime era... why would they slip through without a problem? And my two post-WaMu cards--one was Providian on until 2 months ago, the other is still Providian now. Both are apparently being converted.
I think it makes sense that:
1) Providians issued BEFORE the WaMu acquisition will be the most heavily scrutinized and/or run off, regardless of whether or not they were renewed with WaMu logo.
2)Providians issued AFTER the WaMu acquisition will be scrutinized, and converted if the account is in good standing AND the cardholder's nose is Chase-approved clean elsewhere.
3) WaMu-proper cards will automatically be converted if in good standing.
Of course "sense" rarely prevails, but this is what seems might be the process. Thoughts?
The first numbers of a card identify a Visa or a MasterCard... If they keep the same account number... Wouldn't it mean that WaMu Visa will be Chase Visa and WaMu MasterCard will be Chase MasterCard unless we call and askfor a conversion?
Ulysses, while I don't think it makes ANY sense for Pre-WaMu Providian customers, who were eventually converted to WaMu cards, to slip through. It looks like that might just happen. I think Chase finds it easier to segregate current Providian cards v. WaMu cards.
Ulysses, your breakdown is what I assumed would be true. I was a little surprised that my CSR said my older card was in good shape.
CM, My experience with Providian/WaMu was pretty good. I didn't miss the inability to request a CLI because I didnt know others allowed it. Providian and then WaMu gave me nice CLI's every 6 months or so. In fact the older card is my highest limit (>15k)
I now know that you can request CLI's and my non-WaMu cards are about to overtake my trusty stinker.
As always, YMMV.
CM, so subprime Providians that were acquired by WaMu will have an easier time of it than Providians that were issued by WaMu, with higher underwriting standards?!
No wonder banks need all these bailouts. They don't know WTF they're doing.
Anon, right. If you have a 5 as your first number, you are a MasterCard. If it's a 4 -- you have a Visa.
Chase has a good mix of VISA and MasterCards, so I don't think this should be a problem. And, after the transition is complete, I would think that converting won't be a problem. But the situation is clearly fluid at this point. I doubt anyone has a definite answer for what will happen at this point.
Ulysses, no.
What I am saying is that the Providians (before acquisition) will have the toughest time making the grade.
The Providians who came after the acquisitions will likely have it easier.
And, finally, the Providians who were there before acquisition, but who later got converted to WaMu cards, will likely be better off too.
CM, I agree with your assessment of Providian/WaMu.
If it were not for PFICO, I wouldn't care about the card.
NYRFann at 6.20PM - Thanks for the clarification. As for expecting a card after not paying them back the $13857 you owed them would be a trifle optimistic, no? I was just looking back and saw the link to your story in the earlier article.
CM, once being converted from a WaMu Visa to a Chase Visa... Would Chase convert a Visa to a MasterCard and keep the same history for that Visa-to-MasterCard-converted account?
Anonymous at 6.58PM - Yes, Chase does that and will retain the history as well.
Anonymous......
Your right, I should have no expectations, nor should anybody that has made mistakes in their lives, we are and will always be losers.
With that said I have turned my life around and have the respect of many and will not play into you baby games, I'd better then that.
Have a good night!
Joe, I hope my previous comment was clear.
There will be some Providian customers who will have reformed -- and should not be let go. I would hope that Chase is looking at those customers and keeps them.
As for never being allowed to get back in with a creditor if you've burned them, that's certainly not up to any of us to say how that should work out. That's up to the creditor.
But I would say that if American Express can let people back in, any creditor should. No one is as bad as American Express -- and they've been known to lift the "blacklist" on some customers.
CMB, Hey did you ever realize CMB is a group from a GREAT movie! "we all we got";-)
Anyway this is about my DW's card, and it will be no big deal if she loses it as she has other great cards but I prefer she don't as it's one of her oldest TL's.
New Jack City, baby. I've always enjoyed that movie.
CreditMattersBlog - Good point. Yes, AMEX has a good memory and will let people back in only after have repaid their delinquent balances in full. That's a good system and is completely voluntary. Sometimes I cannot understand how a company that is prone to such poor decision making like AMEX could come up with a excellent method of increasing revenue and customer base.
Anon, one of the things that Amex does is also collect on debts that have been discharged in bankruptcy. In fact, there is nothing in the bankruptcy code that prevents a card issuer and the customer from doing that. As long as the customer voluntarily pays the debt -- even though it was forgiven in bankruptcy -- all is well. Amex works that angle a lot.
If you pay, they'll play.
RE: Killinger. Said story there. Got so interested in making tons of money from the subprime mortgage biz that he lost sight of what the hell was going on.
When we look back at this era we'll just shake our heads.
Greed.
Regarding the conversion from Chase to Chase card: Anon@7:01pm is exactly right. The history is retained.
CM, you have had the most up-to-the-moment info on this development. I read Hegemony's reference to your story on CB and your attempt to inform those folks as to what is going on. I ALSO read your description of why you are downsizing over there as far as links and such.
For the sake of the good ones at CB, can I suggest you start posting your stories again, especially since it was really only one or two who complained, and not the CB admins?
I read both, but not all do.
If this is none of my business, then I'll just shut up now.
:)
Ok, I admit. I am still in infancy when it comes to the history of CC's and the company's. I really had very little clue what the Chase CC acquisition of WaMu meant for the WaMu customer. As I was reading this story and comments that really dont pertain to me, since I dont have any of the mentioned cards, but the org. Chase, here I have thought all along, that I had sub prime cards with the 2 Chase's I have. My CL's are pretty decent in most arena's that CMB and Bob and other GINORMOUS limit card holders are in, but decent for the average card holder.
Who knew that 680 was considered "sub prime" and "absurdly low". My CS was a little lower than that when I first got my Chase cards 8 & 9 years ago. Of course nothing is the gold coin like holding those 800+ CS's, but I honestly thought if you had a 680-720, you were doing okay. Thanks to Creditboards and CMB, I have learned how to get them higher, but WOW! The new things you learn everyday.
Ok. so, please someone point me in the right direction. I have heard/read about the PFICO, but where does one attain theirs? Is/was it only available to WaMu card holders?
Ooops, I meant my limits are decent in arena's CMB, Bob and other Ginormous limit card holders are NOT in. Not being a very important descriptive that was left out, LOL.
Clutch, because you've always been one of my good buddies, I am going to give you the scoop -- right here.
CB received a number of complaints -- back in the day -- about me posting so many stories over there. People were unhappy because I would just post a link and it would bring them here. (Gasp!) You saw an example of that today. Hege posted a link to my story and someone wondered why the information couldn't be posted there (copyright violation, that's why).
Anyhow, tt got to the point where other people starting asking CB admin if they could post links to their blogs. That obviously put CB into a tough situation. How do they allow me to post there -- and not allow others to post stuff to their blogs? Well, it was decided that I should not post as often. Maybe every now and then. I was fine with that. I was also told that I could keep a signature with links in it.
In a nutshell, the admin at CB was great. They were accommodating. They realized that my blog and its information would be of a benefit to CB readers. I figured the same thing. At just about the time it was decided I wouldn't post there as much, I started getting my own personal stalkers. One guy libeled me on another board and pretended as though he was me. A real tool that moron is/was.
Then I had people coming to this board and posting BS -- stuff that had absolutely nothing to do with my blog or stories on it. I had to delete that stuff. The comments had to do with me leeching off CB -- using CB to drive traffic to my site.
As I have removed myself from CB, the negative comments and the stalkers have basically gone away -- at least for now.
Having said all that, there is nothing to stop CB members from posting links to my stories. I am sure my detractors don't have a problem with that. They just have a problem with me "promoting" my blog using CB. Never mind that CB and I have always had a very symbiotic relationship. There will always be haters.
I don't have time for the BS. I am finishing up my law degree and I am paying attention to my blog. I don't need the headache of dealing with people who don't like me.
It seems, for now, that the best way for me to handle the situation is to stay away from CB. People over there know where they can find me.
It used to be that 80% of my traffic used to come from CB. Today, it's more like 2%.
My blog has never been more popular. Unless CB and I align ourselves in some sort of partnership, I think I will continue with the status quo.
I don't need the drama.
Rebekah, you can only get the PFICO score via WaMu. But I am worried that it is going to be killed with this Chase acquisition. I don't have proof yet -- but I am leaning toward it being killed.
Here is a story about PFICO:
http://www.creditmattersblog.com/2008/10/bankcard-industry-option-fico-score.html
Also, I would not say that 680 is subprime. The industry says that 620 and below is subprime. Until that definition is changed, I will not say that 680 is subprime.
Fair Isaac says that 723 is the median FICO score. Half above 723 and half below. The average score -- that's anyone's guess. People think that the average is closer to 685-690. I've personally never seen Fair Isaac disclose what the average score is, so who knows what it really is.
CM, thanks for the info. Sheesh, after hearing that, I don't blame you one bit.
In the future I'll do as Hege does, just post links to CMB when I see they have not already been linked.
I hope I never get a stalker.
Yeah, stalkers are sad people. And I find they have a lot of free time as well. I can't keep up with them. :)
My Wamu Platinum Visa used to be Providian used to be Aria.
This card was originally part of a deal for a Dell laptop back in 2000.
At the time, I had no idea there was such a thing as sub-prime credit card.
:-)
Virgil, welcome to the party. Didn't know that you got your WaMu card that way. Never even heard of Aria.
CreditMatters:
I was at work the whole day. Then I see this is one big topic.
I'll have to catch up later after my dinner date with my lady friend.
Wanna come along, CM?
Virgil, pick me up at the house. I'll be ready.
Seriously, catch up later and then feel free to comment.
Have a good time at dinner.
CM:
I would if you were closer, or if I were closer.
This is one big topic. The comments are slow to load.
I'll be back later.
Thanks!
I figured this would be an active thread. A lot of us have WaMu cards; we've all been wondering how this was going to shake out.
See ya later.
Very boring thread
Anon, sorry we couldn't excite you.
CM
This is a very informative story. Thanks for the posting it. I had wondered why I hadn't seen you on CB lately. Now I know. Sorry about the drama.
Curious, thanks for visiting. Yep. Always someone who doesn't like you. Indeed, just four posts up you have someone saying "very boring thread."
I've always wondered why people even bother to post stuff like that.
Yes, some dismiss this card as subprime, but this red-headed step child of cards has one very nice perk (PFICO).
It has also had many names, this fact is evident in how many are cardholders.
That's why there are so many posts in this thread... ALOT of people have a dog in this race.
Clutch, I am surprised there are so many cardholders. And you are right: that PFICO is a nice perk.
Look at Virgil, he said that he used to have an Aria (?) card? Which was then converted into a Providian card. Providian grabbed a lot of customers in the 1990s. Must be a ton of those cardholders still.
I imagine that I will see some more traffic on Monday -- when people start receiving these letters in the mail.
Yup, and I find this thread even more interesting since my dogs are still (for now) in the race.
Fingers crossed for others.
Clutch, I'm with you. I'm rooting for my readers as well. Some of them are probably on the bubble. I'm hoping they don't see their cards closed. The timing is not good for closures.
I imagine we're going to soon learn about the fate of the PFICO, too. We're scheduled to get our first Chase billing statements after March 6. It's only a matter of time before we start logging into our WaMu card accounts through Chase's Web site.
If I was a betting man, I would say we lose the perk. I hope we don't, but it wouldn't surprise me.
I'll check the spread for continued PFICO at the Vegas sports books for you...
Nearest one is just down the street.
Do that, Clutch. Maybe CB will host a convention there. I'll meet you then.
I just realized, and must add...
My Aria first became GetSmart, then Providian, now WaMu, soon-to-be Chase (if they're smart to retain me!)
I only learned after the fact that the card was considered sub-prime. Ouch! Where were you in 2000, CreditMatters?
At the time, I only applied for the Aria card to get a good deal on a Dell laptop. I had other main cards (MBNA, FirstUSA, Capital One, and whatever was in my credit reports in that era.) The terms were not subprime, given my credit history, despite the reviews found here: http://www.epinions.com/reviews/finc-Credit-Cards-Standard-O-Z-Providian_Bank_-_Aria_Visa_Card
Now the interesting thing is the PFICO. I'm not sure when they started posting the Banking-enhanced FICO scores. Was it a perk from Providian, or Aria, or GetSmart? It's been so long since I had the card that I don't remember.
Wow! This story took off like a rocket awful fast. Left for a while and boom over 100 comments :-)
CM, I hope there will continue to be a good symbiotic relationship between this blog and CB. Not that you asked me, but I personally wish you would go back to just being marcustx on CB. I am a fan of both places but for a while there the lovefest was getting awful sickening and it felt like CB turned into one big CreditMattersBlog referral site. I know that wasn't your intention but I can see where some folks feathers might have gotten ruffled. Now the pendulum has almost swung the opposite direction. I'm confident that with time, and the disappearance of a few trolls and stalkers that you settle back into a happy medium that works for you.
Virgil, interesting history with that card. Hopefully they will retain you. You have a WaMu branded card now, right? If so, looks good for you.
As for PFICO, we need someone with the Providian card to chime in. Someone must remember when that perk got rolled out. I've been with WaMu since 2006. I've always had the PFICO score.
Sorry I wasn't there for you in 2000, V.
any thoughts on what will happen to checking and savings accounts with wamu? Also any info on when we can expect a full chase web site log in as oppose to the old wamu site?
HelCat, you're right. There was a pretty cozy thing taking place over there between CB users and the blog. But you're also right about the pendulum swinging to the other side now.
Even with the new screen name, I figure that with me not having a signature over there -- and not posting stories -- things will be fine. There will always be a good relationship with CB and CM, though.
Hk, as far as I can tell, we're almost completely integrated with the checking and savings accounts. When I make electronic payments with my WaMu checking account, it's reported as JPMorgan Chase.
Also, I wrote a story earlier this week about the WaMu secured card getting killed. In that story, I talked about the integration of WaMu into Chase.
From my story: "In the meantime, I hear that JPMorgan Chase's acquisition of WaMu is going well. Indeed, all of WaMu's business divisions could be fully branded as Chase by mid 2009. No idea, though, when JPMorgan Chase will fully integrate WaMu's card operations."
http://www.creditmattersblog.com/2009/01/wamu-secured-card-first-casualty-in.html
No word on when we will be using a Chase login to access our WaMu cards. But I bet it's not long after our cards are converted over to Chase.
CM:
My card says, "Washington Mutual." It's a Platinum.
I just used it for dinner tonight. It went well (thank you!) My friend is the sister of that Judge of the Family Court I mentioned to you a couple of months ago. The pretty, petite Judge. :-D My friend is going to the Philippines tomorrow for vacation. So tonight I gave her a Bon Voyage dinner. Ain't I sweet? LOL!
Virgil, based on what we know right now, looks like you'll be fine. You have WaMu Platinum plastic. That's good.
Glad the dinner went well.
Thanks CM!
BTW, I'm glad I'm not the only one working hard on Saturdays.
This must be the biggest Saturday story in the history of CreditMattersBlog.com!
Virgil, no question that this was the busiest Saturday at CreditMattersBlog.com. I typically don't write on the weekend. But I troll my email account every day, which is how I got the heads up on this story.
Hmmm....maybe we could hook up a wonderful reader (like me, perhaps?) with a Cliff Notes version of these comments.
Let this be a lesson, learned: don't leave an article unattended on CM for more than a few hours lest the comments bunnies start going at it.
Lion, good idea. You need to be here at the beginning. That way you don't have to read through nearly 150 comments.
Being the trooper that you are, I am sure you won't have a problem getting to the bottom of these comments.
Mostly, though, we're trying to figure out which Providians are most at risk.
I see, I see. Okay. I seem to have read through most (if not all of them) and - I must tell you - there was little scandal. I am disappointed in you all!
Where is my scandal? Where is my intrigue? Humph!
.... :D .... you know I still love you all! But next time you go crazy with the comment bunnies - there better at least be a little scandal in there :)
There was a little sniping in the thread but I deleted the comments. Totally useless comments that did nothing for the conversation.
Otherwise, everyone kept it clean.
Comment 1-5-0!
:-D
CreditMatters:
Every road team has beaten the home team this weekend!
Can your Super Chargers complete the puzzle?
Good luck. I'm sure you must be nervous.
Remember, my niece attends Chargers games. So, you know I don't wish you ill will, because if you're hurt, she's hurt.
I'm rooting for my Chargers. Going to be tough.
We shall see.
Oh yeah, with LT expected to be out.
Attention WaMu cardholders:
I posted a poll for WaMu cardholders at CB:
http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=377783
I asked what was your WaMu cards originally.
Feel free to answer the poll.
:-)
You probably should have posted a link back to my story so that people understood the context of why you're asking that poll question.
I have cards from both banks but my WAMU is older. I'm really hoping the account numbers will remain the same which should mean the tradeline will just change names but not end up being an entirely "new" account.
Green, I agree. But even if the numbers do eventually change, there is no reason why we should lose the history. Indeed, I have had a card compromised before; had to get a new card -- and number. The history moved with the new number. Was no problem.
I'd suspect that Chase would not issue a new history, which would make it look as though we have new accounts. If it did, it would get an earful from people.
CM:
Your wish is my command.
;-)
I suppose I'm a deadbeat too, Anon. I have a 680 FICO 3 years post BK, no delinquencies since then...nice broad brush there.
I'm assuming I'll be converted to Chase. I got my WaMu card fairly recently (July 2008) and it's never has anything calling it "Providian" either on the card itself or my statement, although it does report to my credit report as Wamu/Providian FWIW. I don't know that that makes a difference though.
No worries on how it's reporting. Mine reports the same way:
WASH MUTUAL/PROVIDIAN
I am being converted.
If history holds, the reporting will be a seamless change. We will see the same tradeline, except for the change in the name of the lender.
My father's First USA (which was bought by Bank One and itself acquired by Chase) issued card, went through a seamless change in his credit reports.
My grandfather told me today that his Chemical Bank (which bought Chase Manhattan and rebranded itself to Chase) and Omni Bank (which was bought by Bank One and itself acquired by Chase) issued cards went through seamless changes as well.
Azntg, that's what I am expecting. Shouldn't be a problem at all.
:unamused: I missed the "deadbeat" comments.
You know, Anon, you are right on my very last nerve (and yes, I know there is more than one Anon but since we don't like to post names, I will just assume you are the one who is always ticking me off, mmmkay?). Referring to anyone with a low FICO score as a "deadbeat" proves you are closed minded and know nothing of the real world.
I suppose someone who loses their job and decides their mortgage is of higher importance than their credit card bills is a deadbeat? Or someone without health insurance who gets hospitalized for a week and incurs hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills they cannot pay is a deadbeat? Or a woman (or man) whose spouse leaves them with joint debt (that they themself never incurred) that they are unable to pay is a deadbeat?
That is foolish thinking. Do you know the number one cause for bankruptcy? It isn't high credit card debt - it is medical bills. But I guess we just shouldn't seek medical care if we don't have insurance right? Lest we be unable to pay it?
/rant
-- Sorry CM, I know it added nothing but comments like that just irk me to my core. And my reasons above are why FICO scores are a poor judge of a person's ability (and willingness) to repay a debt.
No worries, Lion. You didn't attack Anon. That's all I care about. As long as we stick to the issues -- and stay away from beating each other up -- I'm fine.
Re "pFICO" history, I've recorded scores going back to Mar '03. My guess is that the scores were offered beginning sometime in 2002.
Harry, very interesting. I think that's right around the time that classic FICO scores were made available -- to consumers -- as well.
Ummm... You mean denizens.
Er, denizens! Drat.
Just a quick pop-in to reaffirm what CM and Bob both said - I called and was told I'm getting converted, and getting a letter, but CSR was not privy to what was actually IN the letter. No CLI offered, tho. suprise! ;)
CM, thanks too for your explanation to Clutch re: your absences from CB - you're missed, just so you know.
Happy and prosperous new year to all CMB readers (and its owner!)
Opus, glad to hear that you're being converted. Nice.
Regarding my absence, yeah. Kind of sucks, but I don't have time for the haters right now. Perhaps when I have more time, I will start posting over there again. In the meantime, everyone knows where I can be found. Ha!
Have a great new year, too!
OK, I got my letter. Nothing different from what CM posted, nothing account-specific. But my interest rate, according to the enclosure, will be going up from 8.99 to 10.24. >:-( Gee, I guess an 817 PFICO and a zero balance makes me the perfect candidate for a rate hike... MY BAD.
Some customers are going to see a substantial rate hike (someone over at CB saw the rate go to 30%). Looks like 10.24% is the new floor.
Chase is likely going to run some people off by implementing substantial rate jacks.
BTW, the letter was undated and unpostmarked. And I only got a letter for the vanilla WaMu (formerly Providian-branded) card. Nothing yet for the still-Providian-branded affinity card.
Ulysses, when you get something on the Providian card, let me know!!
But of course, CM!
Thanks, Ulysses.
I'm trying to recall if anyone here or over at CB got a letter and were told to take a hike.
This makes me wonder, is no news BAD news? How will Chase do this? Close accounts or let them "run off" to expiration.
I find it interesting that, after all the other crap with other cards has happened, this go around people are happy with the AA they are getting from Chase with their WaMu's (rate-jack... but acceptance!!!)
clutch, at this point I'd be happy with a rate-jack :-p
Bob, I agree. As a PIFer, the only way they can touch us is closure... Or, I suppose, AF.
(I didn't even want to mention that last one!)
Clutch, this is only a guess, but here's what I think we'll see.
Some customers will be told that they are being canceled. Others will be brought into the Chase fold but the new rate will be so onerous that they're essentially telling you that we don't value your business. Still others will get transitioned over but won't be renewed once the card expires.
I think we're really early into the process. There is a lot more to know. I don't know it -- yet.
CM, if you are right, the letter should identify if you fall into the first two catagories. If you fall into number three, you may have several years to find out.
Can't wait to get my letters! /sarcasm
And I always love to see a CM post end with "I don't know -- yet." Gives me warm and fuzzies that something is about to break!
"And I always love to see a CM post end with "I don't know -- yet." Gives me warm and fuzzies that something is about to break!"
LOL. You know me too well.
Tease!
Hah!
I'm in the circle of trust!
10.24% :-)
There you go, BW. You got your letter today?
Yup!
Bob, this was a Providian card? Branded Providian?
You know I'd post it, but Joe was way ahead of me ;-)
It started out life as a HomePlus (ADT Security) co-branded card.
I thought it was a Providian, but I realize that I've only had it since 2006, so it may have been a WaMu all along.
Thanks, Bob. So we continue to wait for the Providian cardholders. They'll be chiming in -- eventually.
I had Providian PayPal in the early 2000's.
I cancelled it because I thought the $5,000 limit was an insult ;-)
That was before I knew about the PFICO that came along with Providians :-)
Haha. We'll see how much longer that PFICO perk lasts. Working on finding out.
I was a Providian on one of my cards. CSR says I'm in. No damned letter yet though!
The suspense is killing me. Sorta.
Clutch, do you have a scanner? When you get the letter, redact the important information, and shoot me an email with a picture of the letter. I can post it here.
Yeah, if PFICO goes away, I may have to change my siggy to a hot guy with small FICOs, a la someone who shall not be mentioned ;-)
Of course I have a scanner... I'm an IT profesional. I thought you made an effort to
get to know us! LOL
Anyway, I will send you said docs as soon as I get them.
Am not sure who you are referring to.
Also, this thought: what if Chase starts offering PFICO to all of its customers??
Clutch, I am getting old. I forget. Ha!
That *IS* a good thought, would differentiate Chase.
CFICO? ChFICO? JPMCFICO?
FPFICO.
The score formerly known as PFICO.
An update:
A reader tells me that if you opt out of the changes, you will NOT have to pay off the balance -- even though the card will be closed. You'll be able to pay down the balance according to your old terms until the account is paid off.
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