As I've said before, readers send me quite a bit of email. Readers with all sorts of issues feel compelled to shoot me their stories (which I appreciate). Sometimes, the story is even compelling enough for me to write about. Often, though, I don't do anything with the story at all. Why? Because the story wouldn't exist if the customer had taken care of business. Take Fred Wilson's story, for example. He's singing the blues because American Express shut down all of his accounts. Wilson has been a loyal American Express customer for 26 years. Despite a recent late payment, he thinks that American Express should cut him some slack. American Express isn't budging.
From Wilson's story over at Seeking Alpha (hat tip Hegemony via Creditboards):I've been a customer of American Express since 1983 and have never failed to pay a bill. Right now, between my business interests and family, I carry and pay for five American Express accounts. I'm not going to get into the monthly amounts that these accounts turn over, but I will say that they are significant.
The smallest of these accounts is an old Flatiron Partners account. We don't use that account very much anymore, but we do still use it occasionally. A month ago, we were accidentally late paying that account. And as a result American Express shut down all of my accounts without notifying me. My partners in Union Square Ventures could not use their cards, I could not use my personal card, they shut off all of the accounts I have with them even though they were not in any way related to the Flatiron account. I suspect the accounts are linked because they all funnel membership miles into one single account.
I would imagine that Wilson is not hurting for money. He's a well-known venture capitalist who has enjoyed a lot of success over the years. I suspect that he's looking for a break because he's not a deadbeat. Instead, he's simply guilty of not paying attention to a due date.
Many American Express customers have had their cards shut down for a lot less. Wilson committed a cardinal sin with American Express, though: he missed a payment. And for that, American Express has no tolerance. If Wilson had pitched me his story -- rather than writing it himself -- I might have been interested in one angle. Even with 26 years of perfect payment history, American Express was unwilling to take that into account.
American Express told me that it could not address Wilson's case specifically, but generally speaking "in this environment, we’re trying to strike the right balance between accommodating our cardmembers' spending needs and minimizing unpaid balances that ultimately have to be written-off," an American Express spokesman said. "When a customer is past due in paying their bills, for example, that’s often a red flag. The best advice I can offer is for cardmembers to contact us directly if they have questions or concerns about their account. That way we can have appropriate dialogue with that cardmember."
In other words, Wilson's best bet is to contact American Express directly. What's more, I'd recommend that he bypass front-line customer-service representatives. Ask for a supervisor immediately. Given American Express's recent history, I wouldn't expect a reversal. But who knows. Stranger things have happened. And for the record, I'd say that AmEx probably overreacted in Mr. Wilson's case. A customer of 26 years, with a flawless payment history, probably warrants a second chance.
That said, if you're unwilling to pay your bill on time, even if you're rich, should you get a break? Haven't we all been taught that it's not enough to have the money? You have to actually turn it over too.
What do my readers think? Should Wilson have been cut some slack here? Does his 26 years of on-time payments trump his recent late payment?
You tell me.
Read Wilson's story here.
Monday, May 4, 2009
Singing the American Express Blues (UPDATE -- Includes AmEx Spokesperson Comment)
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41 comments:
Should Wilson have been cut some slack is irrelevant, AMEX has cut him off and that is final.
The big picture question is will you, the reader, continue to wait for AMEX to do something like this (or even one of the greater transgressions you allude to) before you phase them out of your wallet or will you be surprised as most of us are?
"us" including me as a new customer in OCT 08, solicited by AMEX thru COSTCO, no FICO change from time I applied to time I got the letter stating my account had been closed (JAN 09) losing all my rewards and incurring a finance charge (although terms signed up under would not have incurred those until March. Rather than reward AMEX with finance charges in paying off my modest balance, I transferred balance to a long-standing account that has yet to pull any crapola over on me.
Abso-freakin-lutly!
Anyone can miss a payment for one reason or another. AMEX can see the amount of money that flows through his account each month. The should be able to tell that he is capable of paying... and even still can play the old FR card.
This goes back to the "Evil Villain" title the CC companies want to shed. If there were actual humans rather than mindless drones working at AMEX, they'd be able to see that this is a bad business move.
Most definitely, he should be cut some slack - just on the principals of good customer relations. If he's not given any slack, why not just close down his accounts? If he does have all that money and good credit, someone would surely be happy to get his business.
This is probably one of those situations when the call should have been escalated. There can be little doubt that a computer is responsible for the initial closure. A front-line CSR should have been bypassed here. A supervisor, at least, should have been involved.
Given American Express's recent moves, not sure it would have made a difference, though. Unknown.
I don't see that one late payment (I'm assuming it wasn't 30 late) is enough to close an account. Capital One even gives you one late payment freebie a year, from what I can tell. " If your payment is received late (3 or more days after your payment due date) twice within any 12 billing periods, we may increase your APRs immediately to the Default APR disclosed above."
Seems like Amex is overreacting a lot. But that's what you would expect from their subprime panic.
Given how manic AmEx has been lately, that's one card I would not be late on. During a different era, I imagine this would not have been a problem for Wilson, a 26-year member. These days? Look out below.
I'd still be escalating the call to someone other than a front-line CSR.
A classic example of cutting off their nose to spite their face.
Was he called the day after he was late and offered an opportunity to make a payment over the phone to rememdy the error. A call like that is a curtosy unlike the calls when people are 90 days late.
Sam, I didn't get that impression from Wilson's story. Appears the accounts were shut down -- with no questions asked.
312 on-time payments and 1 late payment? And he made a full payment as soon as he realized he was late?
That is a customer I think all banks would want.
This is a case of American Express shooting themselves in the foot.
This guy will go on and start a relationship at a bank that does not over-react. American Express will lose the merchant fees and any interest and annual fees. Now multiply this action by thousands of cardholders and American Express will lose millions of dollars.
And don't forget the fact that Wilson will tell every person he knows about the experience.
Greedy banks must be punished and their wealth should be shared with the people of United States.
Mine were all shut down in January (not closed) due to "you don't have a DUNS number. I have two business cards with AXP and four personal. All were shut down, until I called them about lack of DUNS number. They relented and reopened all but the "line of credit", which is discontinued. Subsequently I don't use any of the cards, personal or business. I just don't and won't trust them (I still don't have a DUNS number.)
~Don
If Amex is willing to kill off a well-heeled customer with 5 high-volume accounts and a perfect 26-year payment history with them, isn't it only a matter of time before they kill off their profitability? Sounds like they've just killed off thousands of dollars per year in transaction fees with this one knee-jerk reaction. Multiply it times a few hundred thousand and...
CM, there should be a credit card rating service on your blog where people can come and rate credit cards the same way people rate merchandise at amazon. I would use it as a reference when deciding what banks to have a relationship with. There are plug-in's that would allow you to have that functionality on your blog.
Anon, shoot me an email. plastic101@gmail.com. Tell me about this thing you speak of.
You could use something like this-
http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/gd-star-rating/
or
http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/wp-polls/
You can search for more plugins at
http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/
Thanks, anon. I am using a blogger blog. Don't think those wordpress apps will work here. Right?
I don't think this guy should get preferential treatment because he is wealthy, but I'm shocked he didn't get it. Across the board, banks nickel and dine poorer customers with fees while wealthy clients get reward points and interest checking.
That being said, it is ridiculous for Amex to close an account for one late payment after years of responsible management.
I am no Amex apologist and I believe they are doing irreperable harm to their brand-
but now that they've added an easy way to set up autopay why in the world would anybody set themselves up for this excuse for Adverse action?
If you pay before the autopay date they do not take the payment (unlike BofA)
It's just there as insurance against this type of goof up.
I would contact the executive offices.
CM, I never used blogger, but there has to be a ton of plugins out there. A quick google search found these
http://www.bloggerplugins.org/2007/10/rate-your-blog-post-widget-plugin.html
and
http://www.outbrain.com/get/ratings
Anon, thanks for the heads up.
The whole problem here, as has been previously mentioned is that it is a poor business decision. Amex makes most of their money on annual fees and transaction fees. High volume accounts that pay on time are good for them, particularly since they have said they want to go back to being primarily a charge card company (vs. credit card/revolving credit). Wealthy customers are not ones who are likely to come back once they find somewhere else to go. Amex certainly got late fees and interest on the payment, and it was paid. They overreacted. Repetition of this type of treatment by a company who used to keep its customers in spite of fees due to its customer service, negates the only real customer retention tool and real advertising (recommendations by cardholders) that they have.
I can agree more with Far Left Texas-
If I was a shareholder- I would be very pissed.
Defaults will continue to rise and AMEX will continue to cut profits from good and bad customers-
Thier computer is STILL doing a poor job of detriming risk-
So they get to choose when payment history is important. Perfect history wont get you anything, but a missed payment will get you all kinds of attention.
It reminds me of cell phone service, rent and utilities. They only report to the CRA's if you miss a payment. Perfect payment gets ignored.
American Express is running their business like they want to be put out of business--
In addition, American Express can also continue to receive tax-payer money (TARP).
No Executives at Amex headquarters are ever available.
The majority shareholder at Amex is a California Hedge Fund which has been in financial trouble and possibly may be dominated by Asian Interests--and there's a lot more--FW
While I think AmEx is making a mistake here, I also think it's wrong to pick on them. I've heard plenty of stories of people having accounts closed by Chase, Citi, B of A, and Capital One. I have to think there's a lot of this going on with smaller banks as well, and we just hear about it more with the biggest card issuers.
Let's face it: all of the issuing banks need to trim their exposure dramatically. If all AmEx customers maxed out their cards simultaneously, AmEx would have a critical capital shortage. (You can replace "AmEx" with any other major bank.) If they have to trim their exposure, it makes sense to do it to people where they at least have a good excuse.
I have been a victim/volunteer of AMEX and frankly I don't buy what they are selling. They are taking good customers, making them very angry.
I had a late payment because of an online bill payment snafu on the Amex website, a payment didn't get made, it actually posted 3 days after the due date and you would think I was some kind of criminal. Most of their actions were uncalled for. If I stopped paying, that would be one thing, but their actions create an even bigger problem as I watched my fico score drop when they whittled my available credit to less than 100 dollars above my outstanding balance (previously I was at 30% usage of the line) I'm not blaming anyone but myself for being dumb enough to carry a balance with them, but to hurt the people who are paying them, because they "might" not pay them is asinine.
If I ever find myself in dire straits, they will be the last company to see money from me.
I have learned now that this is not the way to manage my accounts. After its all paid off, no more credit cards for me. Really, who needs them when you have cash.
michele, I have never been late on any payment, yet American Express canceled my account. I always pay in full, so they didn't have the chance to balance chase me. I wrote a letter to Costco telling them I no longer use American Express and asking them to change to a different network. If thousands of people protest to companies like Costco, I believe American Express will get the message. Fight back.
That brings up a good point. I wonder what kind of effect AMEX's actions have on a captive retailer like Costco.
All I can add is that it's a good question. At some point -- don't know what it is -- Costco, you'd think, would be impacted by these Amex moves. Would be interesting to know the percentage of purchases that are made (Amex vs. debit vs. cash vs. check). The analysts that cover Costco have to be asking these questions.
I would also be interested to see what kind of impact these reductions had on customer loyalty. Other than Costco I have almost completely stopped using Amex cards at retailers(Saves the retailer some transaction fee, and keeping usage low).
Also costco does take debit cards, I think they would be seeing an increase in debit usage. Since most people don't carry around large bills they are swayed towards using the debit. Overall I think it might be beneficial for costco.
Drewbert, I got an American Express just because I shop at Costco. It is the only reason I wanted that card. Don't ask me why, but when I buy stuff with cash I don't spend as much. I wonder if Costco will notice less is purchased when cash is the method of payment? I don't like breaking hundred dollar bills, so I ask myself if I really need what I'm buying. I don't think that way when I pay with a credit card.
If you are a Costco member and have an AMEX issue:
Call Costco corporate member services at
(800)774-2678 (have your Costco Member # handy) ... press 0 and an CSR will be with you.
I just had a great conversation! Professed my love of Costco, told them I hope they would look at their relationship with AMEX, referred them to this blog, and made sure they put on this ticket my phone number to contact me for more information.
Any wonder why Costco is so highly rated by customers and employees and AMEX is not? Shouldn't be ... service is king!
Amex is the worse. I had 2 business acounts, 1 Amex 1 chase. Due to business being tough coupled with a rough winter, I needed a few extra days to make payment on my Amex, I believe it was 5 days late, they immediately jumped my 8% intrested up to 29%. I had only had the card for a little over 1 year, but up until this period, had always paid on time. I expected a late charge, but never the rate to jump to 29%! I did call and asked them to work with me, and was not looking for anything but for them to bring the interest rate back to something more manageable. They would not budge, the more I called to beg, more rude and confertational they became. I was not able to keep up with their new minimum, and had to close by business, now I am in Amex hell, and trying to find a job to keep my personal bills afloat.
Facebook group ... AMEX Sucks
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?topic=8847&uid=78778760529#/group.php?gid=78778760529&ref=mf
We always use debit at Costco because I don't want an Amex card. I love discover. So far I have had very good luck with them. I am sure we would spend more at Costco if it didn't come out of debit which I see as cash. I know I could get a Sam's Club membership (I think they take discover) but I just don't like Sam's Club as much as Costco. Costco is the only major retailer that gets cash from me. Most of my groceries go on Discover so I can get the cash back rewards. I used to reach for my Citi card wherever Discover wasn't taken, but since they rate jacked a good customer, I now took that out of my wallet and replaced it with a Chase card as backup. So good (stable) customers do have choices and they are exercising them.
christina
Christina
I believe Amex intentionally stopped mailing me my statements, in an attempt to make me miss a payment. They got me with my Blue card, I missed by one day, but they refunded me the late payment charge. Now this month I almost missed the due date on my Platinum, because I did not recieve a statement, but I paid it on time.
Keep an eye on your due dates, they may not send you a statement!
I have been crazy busy this month with work and accidentally missed paying my AMEX BLUE card. I received a call from a "Mr. Blahblah" on a saturday morning (a week later) regarding my missed payment and enquiring when I could pay it. When I looked up my online statement, I saw that they had raised my interest rate to 27% and my minimum for the next payment was MORE than two times the minimum for last month's payment. I told "Mr. Blahblah" that the interest rate was exceptionally high, as was the minimum payment, but he wouldn't budge with it and only told me to call back after the payment has gone through. I missed one other payment late last year when I still received paper bills and the statement was accidentally thrown out. They closed ALL of my amex accounts immediately, even though I have been a customer for almost ten years and had always paid on time before this. I'm assuming they consider me a risk now, given the "Mr. Blah Blah" call on a saturday morning for a payment that was only a week late.
I had 2 Amex cards up until Memorial Day weekend. When, after 10 years of perfect payment history, they totally shut both of my cards down. I will admit, I have 1 creditor I am behind with, but none others that have any issues. Of course I was fed me the typical corporate line, but your actually history with the company does not matter one iota. This company has no principals when it comes to their customers. They run a mis-guided algorith on all accounts, and any meeting the criteria are done, no if's, and's or but's. I was an absolute apostle for Amex, but now I will frequent those places that refuse them and obviously never spend another dime with them.
All American Express cardmembers by now should have received the August 2009 letter from Amex stating the huge rate increase and the changes in the terms of the Amex contract. All members should be outraged at this despicable act by this company prior to the first stage of the Credit Card Reform Act of 2009.
There are many sites discussing this travesty by a company who as recent as April 2008 testified before the House Financial Services Sub-committee this would never occur. American Express Executive VP and GM of the Consumer Card Division spoke on behalf of Amex stated adamantly, "We do not increase an individual customer's interest rate-or APR-for any reason other than the customer's performance on that particular account."
He also testified, "As you know, the capital markets are experiencing considerable uncertainty, which has had an impact on the cost of commercial borrowing. Even for well-capitalized, A-rated companies, like American Express, interest rate spreads are extremely high. This means that the rate reductions American Express has passed along to consumers have exceeded the reduction in our own cost of funds. As I mentioned earlier, American Express will not increase an individual Cardmember's interest rate based on their performance with other lenders, or based on a change in our cost of funds."
All Amex Cardmembers need to join together and loudly voice their objections to this act by American Express. I urge all cardmembers who are fed up with being pushed around and lied to by companies like American Express to sign the petition at,
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/amexcardmembersprotest/index.html
and get in your voice against this wrongful, dishonorable, and despicable act by American Express against their loyal customers who have honored their commitment to Amex by paying their accounts on time and in good order. The American Express vow to all their "good" customers is “GOOD CREDIT DESERVES GREAT REWARDS”.
Sign our petition and be a part of a unified voice against American Express. Again:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/amexcardmembersprotest/index.html
Thanks on behalf of all Amex cardmembers.
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